Discussion:
Newbie help: How to debug W7 blue screens' dumps with WinDbg?
(too old to reply)
Ant
2011-09-20 20:27:31 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Hello.

I am trying to figure out an updated 64-bit Windows 7 HPE's random blue
screen crashes' dump files (mini, kernel, and small) with WinDbg
v6.12.0002.633 AMD64. I am not a developer/programmer to understand the
these technical results, but I would like to see if I can get more
clues. I understand that they have commands and ways to dig deep like
"!analyze -v" command. What else are good to know?

I also have weird freezes/hangs as well. Both of these issues can happen
even after rebooting and idling before logging in. It can take minutes,
hours, days, and weeks to reproduce so it is random. I already tried
memtest86s, prime95, KNOPPIX liveCD, etc. for days without any problems.
So maybe it is a driver or something? I tried to find the latest drivers
from Dell's web site, but they all seem to be updated from 2009. I
noticed the problems/symptoms got worse and worse over the last few
months.

Looking at WhyCrash shows these blue screen dumps:

On Tue 9/20/2011 5:58:10 PM GMT your computer crashed
crash dump file: C:\Windows\Minidump\092011-17128-01.dmp
This was probably caused by the following module: ntoskrnl.exe
(nt+0x705C0)
Bugcheck code: 0xD9 (0x1, 0xFFFFFA8008247070, 0xFFFFFA800A1AEDD0, 0x40)
Error: LOCKED_PAGES_TRACKER_CORRUPTION
file path: C:\Windows\system32\ntoskrnl.exe
product: Microsoft® Windows® Operating System
company: Microsoft Corporation
description: NT Kernel & System
Bug check description: This indicates that the internal locked-page
tracking structures have been corrupted.
This might be a case of memory corruption. More often memory corruption
happens because of software errors in buggy drivers, not because of
faulty RAM modules.
The crash took place in the Windows kernel. Possibly this problem is
caused by another driver which cannot be identified at this time.

On Tue 9/20/2011 5:58:10 PM GMT your computer crashed
crash dump file: C:\Windows\memory.dmp
This was probably caused by the following module: vmx86.sys
(vmx86+0x508D)
Bugcheck code: 0xD9 (0x1, 0xFFFFFA8008247070, 0xFFFFFA800A1AEDD0, 0x40)
Error: LOCKED_PAGES_TRACKER_CORRUPTION
file path: C:\Windows\system32\drivers\vmx86.sys
product: VMware kernel driver
company: VMware, Inc.
description: VMware kernel driver
Bug check description: This indicates that the internal locked-page
tracking structures have been corrupted.
This might be a case of memory corruption. More often memory corruption
happens because of software errors in buggy drivers, not because of
faulty RAM modules.
A third party driver was identified as the probable root cause of this
system error. It is suggested you look for an update for the following
driver: vmx86.sys (VMware kernel driver, VMware, Inc.).

On Tue 9/20/2011 12:59:39 AM GMT your computer crashed
crash dump file: C:\Windows\Minidump\091911-19718-01.dmp
This was probably caused by the following module: ntoskrnl.exe
(nt+0x705C0)
Bugcheck code: 0x4E (0x99, 0x5FE52, 0x0, 0x11B5D2)
Error: PFN_LIST_CORRUPT
file path: C:\Windows\system32\ntoskrnl.exe
product: Microsoft® Windows® Operating System
company: Microsoft Corporation
description: NT Kernel & System
Bug check description: This indicates that the page frame number (PFN)
list is corrupted.
This appears to be a typical software driver bug and is not likely to be
caused by a hardware problem. This might be a case of memory corruption.
More often memory corruption happens because of software errors in buggy
drivers, not because of faulty RAM modules.
The crash took place in the Windows kernel. Possibly this problem is
caused by another driver which cannot be identified at this time.

On Tue 9/20/2011 12:59:39 AM GMT your computer crashed
crash dump file: C:\Windows\memory.dmp
This was probably caused by the following module: ntkrnlmp.exe
(nt!KeBugCheckEx+0x0)
Bugcheck code: 0x4E (0x99, 0x5FE52, 0x0, 0x11B5D2)
Error: PFN_LIST_CORRUPT
Bug check description: This indicates that the page frame number (PFN)
list is corrupted.
This appears to be a typical software driver bug and is not likely to be
caused by a hardware problem. This might be a case of memory corruption.
More often memory corruption happens because of software errors in buggy
drivers, not because of faulty RAM modules.
The crash took place in the Windows kernel. Possibly this problem is
caused by another driver which cannot be identified at this time.

On Fri 7/15/2011 6:53:37 AM GMT your computer crashed
crash dump file: C:\Windows\Minidump\071511-39702-01.dmp
This was probably caused by the following module: ntoskrnl.exe
(nt+0x70700)
Bugcheck code: 0x1A (0x41287, 0x12A5678C0, 0x0, 0x0)
Error: MEMORY_MANAGEMENT
file path: C:\Windows\system32\ntoskrnl.exe
product: Microsoft® Windows® Operating System
company: Microsoft Corporation
description: NT Kernel & System
Bug check description: This indicates that a severe memory management
error occurred.
This might be a case of memory corruption. More often memory corruption
happens because of software errors in buggy drivers, not because of
faulty RAM modules.
The crash took place in the Windows kernel. Possibly this problem is
caused by another driver which cannot be identified at this time.

On Tue 7/12/2011 1:39:46 AM GMT your computer crashed
crash dump file: C:\Windows\Minidump\071111-37190-01.dmp
This was probably caused by the following module: ntoskrnl.exe
(nt+0x70700)
Bugcheck code: 0x1A (0x403, 0xFFFFF68000141DC0, 0xC9700000A7CD2847,
0xFFFFF6FC8061ADDA)
Error: MEMORY_MANAGEMENT
file path: C:\Windows\system32\ntoskrnl.exe
product: Microsoft® Windows® Operating System
company: Microsoft Corporation
description: NT Kernel & System
Bug check description: This indicates that a severe memory management
error occurred.
This might be a case of memory corruption. More often memory corruption
happens because of software errors in buggy drivers, not because of
faulty RAM modules.
The crash took place in the Windows kernel. Possibly this problem is
caused by another driver which cannot be identified at this time.

On Thu 7/7/2011 8:57:07 PM GMT your computer crashed
crash dump file: C:\Windows\Minidump\070711-33602-01.dmp
This was probably caused by the following module: ntoskrnl.exe
(nt+0x70700)
Bugcheck code: 0x1A (0x403, 0xFFFFF68000052B30, 0xA5F00000AAB52867,
0xFFFFF6FC80626652)
Error: MEMORY_MANAGEMENT
file path: C:\Windows\system32\ntoskrnl.exe
product: Microsoft® Windows® Operating System
company: Microsoft Corporation
description: NT Kernel & System
Bug check description: This indicates that a severe memory management
error occurred.
This might be a case of memory corruption. More often memory corruption
happens because of software errors in buggy drivers, not because of
faulty RAM modules.
The crash took place in the Windows kernel. Possibly this problem is
caused by another driver which cannot be identified at this time.

On Sun 7/3/2011 1:53:37 PM GMT your computer crashed
crash dump file: C:\Windows\Minidump\070511-37003-01.dmp
This was probably caused by the following module: ntoskrnl.exe
(nt+0x70700)
Bugcheck code: 0x109 (0xA3A039D89D1EA667, 0x0, 0x1CCE998271631324,
0x101)
Error: CRITICAL_STRUCTURE_CORRUPTION
file path: C:\Windows\system32\ntoskrnl.exe
product: Microsoft® Windows® Operating System
company: Microsoft Corporation
description: NT Kernel & System
Bug check description: This indicates that the kernel has detected
critical kernel code or data corruption.
This might be a case of memory corruption. More often memory corruption
happens because of software errors in buggy drivers, not because of
faulty RAM modules.
The crash took place in the Windows kernel. Possibly this problem is
caused by another driver which cannot be identified at this time.

On Thu 6/23/2011 9:31:31 PM GMT your computer crashed
crash dump file: C:\Windows\Minidump\062311-18751-01.dmp
This was probably caused by the following module: ntoskrnl.exe
(nt+0x70700)
Bugcheck code: 0x1A (0x41287, 0x142FE78C0, 0x0, 0x0)
Error: MEMORY_MANAGEMENT
file path: C:\Windows\system32\ntoskrnl.exe
product: Microsoft® Windows® Operating System
company: Microsoft Corporation
description: NT Kernel & System
Bug check description: This indicates that a severe memory management
error occurred.
This might be a case of memory corruption. More often memory corruption
happens because of software errors in buggy drivers, not because of
faulty RAM modules.
The crash took place in the Windows kernel. Possibly this problem is
caused by another driver which cannot be identified at this time.

On Fri 6/10/2011 8:18:40 PM GMT your computer crashed
crash dump file: C:\Windows\Minidump\061011-21465-01.dmp
This was probably caused by the following module: ntoskrnl.exe
(nt+0x70700)
Bugcheck code: 0x1A (0x5003, 0xFFFFF90000812000, 0x4D7F, 0x81B500009AEE)
Error: MEMORY_MANAGEMENT
file path: C:\Windows\system32\ntoskrnl.exe
product: Microsoft® Windows® Operating System
company: Microsoft Corporation
description: NT Kernel & System
Bug check description: This indicates that a severe memory management
error occurred.
This might be a case of memory corruption. More often memory corruption
happens because of software errors in buggy drivers, not because of
faulty RAM modules.
The crash took place in the Windows kernel. Possibly this problem is
caused by another driver which cannot be identified at this time.

On Wed 6/8/2011 7:47:14 PM GMT your computer crashed
crash dump file: C:\Windows\Minidump\060811-20654-01.dmp
This was probably caused by the following module: ntoskrnl.exe
(nt+0x70700)
Bugcheck code: 0xDE (0x2, 0xFFFFF8A01935C8F0, 0xFFFFF8A01BC29909,
0x2B2BB8C0)
Error: POOL_CORRUPTION_IN_FILE_AREA
file path: C:\Windows\system32\ntoskrnl.exe
product: Microsoft® Windows® Operating System
company: Microsoft Corporation
description: NT Kernel & System
Bug check description: This indicates that a driver has corrupted pool
memory that is used for holding pages destined for disk.
The crash took place in the Windows kernel. Possibly this problem is
caused by another driver which cannot be identified at this time.


Here is what I did already so far over the last few months in details:
-Ran Prime95's default tests nonstop over the weekend (~63 hours)
without any problems.
-ran some of dell utility's tests (couldn't leave all overnight due to
required medias and interactions; up to SATA HDD test and media drives)
-Memtest86+ v4.2 (USB flash) passed without errors with 8 GB of RAM
after a whole weekend. Old UPS was beeping when returned though (battery
replacement needed).
-Memtest86 v4.0 (CD-RW) passed without errors with 8 GB of RAM overnight (almost 16 hours).
-tried cleaning old drivers and reinstalling the latest ATI drivers
again.
-disabled ATI Catalyst AI
-resetted ATI driver settings with factory defaults and each section's
defaults button.
-disabled UAC
-uninstalled free partition programs and Zentimo
-unplugged headphone cable, network, and all USB devices during six days
vacation. No BSoD, but starting to freeze and then hard lock up after
logging in. Event logs showed it started three days before my return.
-replaced with a new and powerful UPS.
-tried a new monitor (Acer instead of Philips).
-loaded CMOS/BIOS settings back to defaults (didn't seem to change even
after twice)?
-enabled Intel SpeedStep and C-State Tech
-disabled SAS service.
-disabled virtual memory/pagefile
-upgraded Realtek audio driver to the latest.
-changed power AC cable
-uninstalled N360
-no malwares found with the latest Spybot S&D, SuperAntiSpyware,
MalwareBytes AntiMalware, The Cleaner v8 portable, LUed N360 v3 and v4,
and MRT.
-used two different USB keyboards (Acer and Dell)
-disconnected UPS' USB cable
-ran a disk defragger
-ran SmartCTL's long tests for HDD problems (all passed)
-Virtual Disk service from manual to started automatic
-disable all memory card readers
-disable power sleep for USB devices
-upgraded DVD burner drive's firmware from 102 to 103.
-upgraded Gears driver

SYMPTOMS:
-almost 17.3 minutes to a over weeks uptimes. Used to be longer like
months in the before those short uptimes.
-Sometimes blue screens without memory dumps and anything recorded.
-Hanging/freezing with spinning mouse cursor (can move, but no click and
keyboard reactions [even lights]). Unplugging and reconnecting USB and
DVI did not help, but DVI showed a blank screen (still has video signal)
-Saw a freeze/lock up with a Windows login screen after a reboot over a
weekend.
-Freezes, but sometimes come back but still freezes.
-Seen this hang problem with old default three 1 GB of RAM, but no blue
screens.
-Blue screens during usages and idled times (most big programs (Office
2007, VMware Workstation v7.1.x, Mozilla's SeaMonkey v2.0.x, etc. are
closed/exited, even after a reboot).
-Nothing odd in event logs.
-During Memtest86 v4.0 (CD-RW) after almost 16 hours, all keyboard
lights were on and not responding. Had to reconnect USB devices
(keyboard too) to make it work to reboot.
-Most of the times, memory.dmp is created. A few times, they aren't.


Thank you in advance. :)
--
Quote of the Week: "The shadows now so long do grow,... That brambles
like tall cedars show,... Molehills seem mountains, and the ant...
Appears a monstrous elephant." --Charles Cotton's poem
/\___/\ Ant @ http://antfarm.home.dhs.org (Personal Web Site)
/ /\ /\ \ Ant's Quality Foraged Links: http://aqfl.net
| |o o| |
\ _ / Please nuke ANT if replying by e-mail. If crediting,
( ) then please kindly use Ant nickname and AQFL URL/link.
Yousuf Khan
2011-09-21 00:46:34 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Ant
Hello.
I am trying to figure out an updated 64-bit Windows 7 HPE's random blue
screen crashes' dump files (mini, kernel, and small) with WinDbg
v6.12.0002.633 AMD64. I am not a developer/programmer to understand the
these technical results, but I would like to see if I can get more
clues. I understand that they have commands and ways to dig deep like
"!analyze -v" command. What else are good to know?
I learned the WinDbg stuff some time ago, and then I found
BlueScreenView and never bothered with WinDbg again.

Yousuf Khan
Ant
2011-09-24 00:52:58 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Yousuf Khan
Post by Ant
I am trying to figure out an updated 64-bit Windows 7 HPE's random blue
screen crashes' dump files (mini, kernel, and small) with WinDbg
v6.12.0002.633 AMD64. I am not a developer/programmer to understand the
these technical results, but I would like to see if I can get more
clues. I understand that they have commands and ways to dig deep like
"!analyze -v" command. What else are good to know?
I learned the WinDbg stuff some time ago, and then I found
BlueScreenView and never bothered with WinDbg again.
OK, I tried v1.40 and it seems to say it is caused by ntoskrnl.exe
driver from these two minindumps:
092011-17128-01.dmp 9/20/2011 10:59:19 AM
LOCKED_PAGES_TRACKER_CORRUPTION 0x000000d9 00000000`00000001
fffffa80`08247070 fffffa80`0a1aedd0 00000000`00000040
ntoskrnl.exe ntoskrnl.exe+705c0 NT Kernel & System
Microsoft® Windows® Operating System Microsoft Corporation
6.1.7600.16841 (win7_gdr.110622-1503) x64 ntoskrnl.exe+705c0
C:\Windows\Minidump\092011-17128-01.dmp 4 15 7600 274,912

091911-19718-01.dmp 9/19/2011 6:01:27 PM PFN_LIST_CORRUPT
0x0000004e 00000000`00000099 00000000`0005fe52
00000000`00000000 00000000`0011b5d2 ntoskrnl.exe
ntoskrnl.exe+705c0 NT Kernel & System Microsoft® Windows®
Operating System Microsoft Corporation 6.1.7600.16841
(win7_gdr.110622-1503) x64 ntoskrnl.exe+705c0
C:\Windows\Minidump\091911-19718-01.dmp 4 15 7600 274,912

Hmm. How accurate is this program for you? I find it interesting that
this program can't handle full dumps.
--
Quote of the Week: "The shadows now so long do grow,... That brambles
like tall cedars show,... Molehills seem mountains, and the ant...
Appears a monstrous elephant." --Charles Cotton's poem
/\___/\ Ant @ http://antfarm.home.dhs.org (Personal Web Site)
/ /\ /\ \ Ant's Quality Foraged Links: http://aqfl.net
| |o o| |
\ _ / Please nuke ANT if replying by e-mail. If crediting,
( ) then please kindly use Ant nickname and AQFL URL/link.
Yousuf Khan
2011-09-24 23:51:56 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Ant
Post by Yousuf Khan
I learned the WinDbg stuff some time ago, and then I found
BlueScreenView and never bothered with WinDbg again.
OK, I tried v1.40 and it seems to say it is caused by ntoskrnl.exe
092011-17128-01.dmp 9/20/2011 10:59:19 AM
LOCKED_PAGES_TRACKER_CORRUPTION 0x000000d9 00000000`00000001
fffffa80`08247070 fffffa80`0a1aedd0 00000000`00000040
ntoskrnl.exe ntoskrnl.exe+705c0 NT Kernel& System
Microsoft® Windows® Operating System Microsoft Corporation
6.1.7600.16841 (win7_gdr.110622-1503) x64 ntoskrnl.exe+705c0
C:\Windows\Minidump\092011-17128-01.dmp 4 15 7600 274,912
091911-19718-01.dmp 9/19/2011 6:01:27 PM PFN_LIST_CORRUPT
0x0000004e 00000000`00000099 00000000`0005fe52
00000000`00000000 00000000`0011b5d2 ntoskrnl.exe
ntoskrnl.exe+705c0 NT Kernel& System Microsoft® Windows®
Operating System Microsoft Corporation 6.1.7600.16841
(win7_gdr.110622-1503) x64 ntoskrnl.exe+705c0
C:\Windows\Minidump\091911-19718-01.dmp 4 15 7600 274,912
Hmm. How accurate is this program for you? I find it interesting that
this program can't handle full dumps.
When I had learned how to use WinDbg I compared it to the information I
was getting from Bluescreenview. I found Bluescreenview was right on the
money, showing everything in seconds that I had found out the hard way
by hand using WinDbg (probably took 15 minutes by hand). I now no longer
remember how to use WinDbg, but I don't care Bluescreenview is all I need.

As for not being able to handle the full dumps, I think the reason for
that is because the full dumps and the minidumps are formatted in
different ways. Most of the major problems can be handled by the
minidumps, anyway. I think the full-dump is just a legacy feature left
over for programmers who do kernel or device driver development, and
they need the full dump feature to debug problems that they caused from
their own code.

You can now concentrate on doing a search for PFN_LIST_CORRUPT and
LOCKED_PAGES_TRACKER_CORRUPTION errors on the ntoskrnl.exe through
Google, rather than learning WinDbg and all of that other crap.

Yousuf Khan
Paul
2011-09-25 00:10:09 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Yousuf Khan
You can now concentrate on doing a search for PFN_LIST_CORRUPT and
LOCKED_PAGES_TRACKER_CORRUPTION errors on the ntoskrnl.exe through
Google, rather than learning WinDbg and all of that other crap.
Yousuf Khan
And then deal with the disconnect, where the evidence shows it's
a memory related problem, and all the testing to date shows no memory
problems. What to do ?

Something doesn't add up.

Paul
Gene E. Bloch
2011-09-25 00:23:46 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Paul
Post by Yousuf Khan
You can now concentrate on doing a search for PFN_LIST_CORRUPT and
LOCKED_PAGES_TRACKER_CORRUPTION errors on the ntoskrnl.exe through
Google, rather than learning WinDbg and all of that other crap.
Yousuf Khan
And then deal with the disconnect, where the evidence shows it's
a memory related problem, and all the testing to date shows no memory
problems. What to do ?
Something doesn't add up.
Paul
Every now and then I post somewhere about the problem I thought might be
memory. The memory tests were all happy with my memory, but eventually I
swapped memory around anyway, and lo! I cured the problem :-)
--
Gene E. Bloch (Stumbling Bloch)
Paul
2011-09-25 04:48:34 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Gene E. Bloch
Post by Paul
Post by Yousuf Khan
You can now concentrate on doing a search for PFN_LIST_CORRUPT and
LOCKED_PAGES_TRACKER_CORRUPTION errors on the ntoskrnl.exe through
Google, rather than learning WinDbg and all of that other crap.
Yousuf Khan
And then deal with the disconnect, where the evidence shows it's
a memory related problem, and all the testing to date shows no memory
problems. What to do ?
Something doesn't add up.
Paul
Every now and then I post somewhere about the problem I thought might be
memory. The memory tests were all happy with my memory, but eventually I
swapped memory around anyway, and lo! I cured the problem :-)
That's what I'm thinking at the moment. Time to ignore the test results.

If it was an NVidia chipset, I'd be dropping the memory clock speed,
setting command rate to 2 instead of 1, and then start removing
sticks until it behaved itself. If I was down to one stick,
set to DDR2-533, command rate 2, and the thing was still throwing
wobblies, I'd throw it in the garbage :-) I have a VIA board that's
rock solid with those settings, and if you can't do better than a
VIA chipset, in the garbage you go :-)

Paul
Ant
2011-09-25 19:57:47 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Paul
Post by Gene E. Bloch
Post by Paul
Post by Yousuf Khan
You can now concentrate on doing a search for PFN_LIST_CORRUPT and
LOCKED_PAGES_TRACKER_CORRUPTION errors on the ntoskrnl.exe through
Google, rather than learning WinDbg and all of that other crap.
And then deal with the disconnect, where the evidence shows it's
a memory related problem, and all the testing to date shows no memory
problems. What to do ?
Something doesn't add up.
Every now and then I post somewhere about the problem I thought might be
memory. The memory tests were all happy with my memory, but eventually I
swapped memory around anyway, and lo! I cured the problem :-)
That's what I'm thinking at the moment. Time to ignore the test results.
If it was an NVidia chipset, I'd be dropping the memory clock speed,
setting command rate to 2 instead of 1, and then start removing
sticks until it behaved itself. If I was down to one stick,
set to DDR2-533, command rate 2, and the thing was still throwing
wobblies, I'd throw it in the garbage :-) I have a VIA board that's
rock solid with those settings, and if you can't do better than a
VIA chipset, in the garbage you go :-)
It is a Dell Studio XPS 8000 with 8 GB of RAM (two pieces of Crucial
from
http://www.crucial.com/store/mpartspecs.aspx?mtbpoid=F4FCAEEFA5CA7304 ).
I don't know what chipset exactly. I don't think it is NVIDIA and VIA. I
will have to run a hardware checker to see when I get to that PC.

Did I mention even idling at login screen after a reboot can still blue
screen or just hang/freeze?
--
"May 10,000 ants never invade your underwear drawer." --unknown
/\___/\ Ant @ http://antfarm.ma.cx (Personal Web Site)
/ /\ /\ \ Ant's Quality Foraged Links: http://aqfl.net
| |o o| |
\ _ / If crediting, then use Ant nickname and AQFL URL/link.
( ) If e-mailing, then axe ANT from its address if needed.
Ant is/was listening to a song on this computer: NanvanNoord - NM - Cod
Barley Promo Mix (ID: 447324)
Gene E. Bloch
2011-09-26 01:43:09 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Ant
Post by Paul
Post by Gene E. Bloch
Post by Paul
Post by Yousuf Khan
You can now concentrate on doing a search for PFN_LIST_CORRUPT and
LOCKED_PAGES_TRACKER_CORRUPTION errors on the ntoskrnl.exe through
Google, rather than learning WinDbg and all of that other crap.
And then deal with the disconnect, where the evidence shows it's
a memory related problem, and all the testing to date shows no memory
problems. What to do ?
Something doesn't add up.
Every now and then I post somewhere about the problem I thought might be
memory. The memory tests were all happy with my memory, but eventually I
swapped memory around anyway, and lo! I cured the problem :-)
That's what I'm thinking at the moment. Time to ignore the test results.
If it was an NVidia chipset, I'd be dropping the memory clock speed,
setting command rate to 2 instead of 1, and then start removing
sticks until it behaved itself. If I was down to one stick,
set to DDR2-533, command rate 2, and the thing was still throwing
wobblies, I'd throw it in the garbage :-) I have a VIA board that's
rock solid with those settings, and if you can't do better than a
VIA chipset, in the garbage you go :-)
It is a Dell Studio XPS 8000 with 8 GB of RAM (two pieces of Crucial
from
http://www.crucial.com/store/mpartspecs.aspx?mtbpoid=F4FCAEEFA5CA7304 ).
I don't know what chipset exactly. I don't think it is NVIDIA and VIA. I
will have to run a hardware checker to see when I get to that PC.
Did I mention even idling at login screen after a reboot can still blue
screen or just hang/freeze?
That makes me think of hardware...
--
Gene E. Bloch (Stumbling Bloch)
Ant
2011-09-26 08:59:18 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Gene E. Bloch
Post by Ant
Did I mention even idling at login screen after a reboot can still blue
screen or just hang/freeze?
That makes me think of hardware...
But what can it be? Grr.
--
"This is the ant. Treat it with respect. For it may very well be the
next dominant lifeform of our planet." --Empire of the Ants movie
/\___/\ Ant @ http://antfarm.ma.cx (Personal Web Site)
/ /\ /\ \ Ant's Quality Foraged Links: http://aqfl.net
| |o o| |
\ _ / If crediting, then use Ant nickname and AQFL URL/link.
( ) If e-mailing, then axe ANT from its address if needed.
Ant is currently not listening to any songs on this computer.
Gene E. Bloch
2011-09-26 21:24:58 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Ant
Post by Gene E. Bloch
Post by Ant
Did I mention even idling at login screen after a reboot can still blue
screen or just hang/freeze?
That makes me think of hardware...
But what can it be? Grr.
Yeah. The $64 question...

Not to mention that I might be wrong anyway :-(
--
Gene E. Bloch (Stumbling Bloch)
Ant
2011-09-25 19:47:19 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Gene E. Bloch
Every now and then I post somewhere about the problem I thought might be
memory. The memory tests were all happy with my memory, but eventually I
swapped memory around anyway, and lo! I cured the problem :-)
Swapped like in its slots? I only have two RAM pieces.
--
"It doesn't matter what your D&D manual says, you did not get 5
experience points for killing the giant ant in your kitchen." --BBspot's
Geek Horoscopes (7/30/2004)
/\___/\ Ant @ http://antfarm.ma.cx (Personal Web Site)
/ /\ /\ \ Ant's Quality Foraged Links: http://aqfl.net
| |o o| |
\ _ / If crediting, then use Ant nickname and AQFL URL/link.
( ) If e-mailing, then axe ANT from its address if needed.
Ant is/was listening to a song on this computer: NanvanNoord - NM - Cod
Barley Promo Mix (ID: 447324)
Gene E. Bloch
2011-09-26 01:42:15 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Ant
Post by Gene E. Bloch
Every now and then I post somewhere about the problem I thought might be
memory. The memory tests were all happy with my memory, but eventually I
swapped memory around anyway, and lo! I cured the problem :-)
Swapped like in its slots? I only have two RAM pieces.
Actually, I removed one stick and ran the system, and then the other and
ran it again. One stick caused the crashes, the other didn't. Details
fuzzy after 6 or 7 years...

Not every board will let you run single sticks, however.

I just remembered a laptop I had around the same time that came with two
memory slots and it had one stick in slot one. I bought a second stick
of another brand, and found that the computer wouldn't boot unless I put
the new stick in slot one and the original in slot two. Go figure.
--
Gene E. Bloch (Stumbling Bloch)
Ant
2011-09-26 09:00:05 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Gene E. Bloch
Actually, I removed one stick and ran the system, and then the other and
ran it again. One stick caused the crashes, the other didn't. Details
fuzzy after 6 or 7 years...
Not every board will let you run single sticks, however.
I just remembered a laptop I had around the same time that came with two
memory slots and it had one stick in slot one. I bought a second stick
of another brand, and found that the computer wouldn't boot unless I put
the new stick in slot one and the original in slot two. Go figure.
At least you were able to reproduce the symptoms quickly. Mine is so
random and rare. :(
--
"This is the ant. Treat it with respect. For it may very well be the
next dominant lifeform of our planet." --Empire of the Ants movie
/\___/\ Ant @ http://antfarm.ma.cx (Personal Web Site)
/ /\ /\ \ Ant's Quality Foraged Links: http://aqfl.net
| |o o| |
\ _ / If crediting, then use Ant nickname and AQFL URL/link.
( ) If e-mailing, then axe ANT from its address if needed.
Ant is currently not listening to any songs on this computer.
Gene E. Bloch
2011-09-26 21:27:34 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Ant
Post by Gene E. Bloch
Actually, I removed one stick and ran the system, and then the other and
ran it again. One stick caused the crashes, the other didn't. Details
fuzzy after 6 or 7 years...
Not every board will let you run single sticks, however.
I just remembered a laptop I had around the same time that came with two
memory slots and it had one stick in slot one. I bought a second stick
of another brand, and found that the computer wouldn't boot unless I put
the new stick in slot one and the original in slot two. Go figure.
At least you were able to reproduce the symptoms quickly. Mine is so
random and rare. :(
In that case, yes.

In the situation I mentioned in this or another recent thread, where the
memory tested OK but wasn't, the crashes were infrequent and random, so
that even after a couple of well-behaved weeks with new memory, I was
still nervous...
--
Gene E. Bloch (Stumbling Bloch)
Yousuf Khan
2011-09-25 15:15:11 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Paul
Post by Yousuf Khan
You can now concentrate on doing a search for PFN_LIST_CORRUPT and
LOCKED_PAGES_TRACKER_CORRUPTION errors on the ntoskrnl.exe through
Google, rather than learning WinDbg and all of that other crap.
Yousuf Khan
And then deal with the disconnect, where the evidence shows it's
a memory related problem, and all the testing to date shows no memory
problems. What to do ?
Something doesn't add up.
Are you having the same problem as Ant? One of the good features of
Bluescreenview is that it shows the list of previous function callers
before the Blue Screen happened. You can then run something like
Microsoft's Driver Verifier or just attempt to update that driver somehow.

Yousuf Khan
Ant
2011-09-25 20:09:41 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Yousuf Khan
Are you having the same problem as Ant? One of the good features of
Bluescreenview is that it shows the list of previous function callers
before the Blue Screen happened. You can then run something like
Microsoft's Driver Verifier or just attempt to update that driver somehow.
I don't see any newer drivers from Dell.com. Most of them are from 2009.
I even tried the latest RealTek driver for its onboard audio, but that
didn't help (thought it did for a couple weeks). Grr. Annoying.

I briefly tried Driver Verifier, but don't quite understand it even
after reading about it. I tried enabling all drivers to verify last
week, rebooted, and my PC/64-bit Windows 7 was super slow! I left it
overnight like this, and no problems when I came back. I turned all
drivers verifications off since the slow downs were bad on this quad
core (Intel i5) system. :( Then, I tried only one unsigned driver
(forgot what it was). Its speed wasn't bad. I started up VMware
Workstation v7.1.4 and a guest image, and boom blue screen. WinDbg
blamed VMware, but BlueScreenView pointed (I know, it is not accurate)
on ntoskrnl.exe. See, it is confusing!

Oh speaking of blue screens, I am also trying to debug my father's old
Dell PC's updated Windows 2000 SP4 that rarely and randomly blue screens
too. BlueScreenView points to uhcd.sys (USB related?).

Argh!
--
"He who cannot pick up an ant, and wants to pick up an elephant will
some day see his folly." --African
/\___/\ Ant @ http://antfarm.ma.cx (Personal Web Site)
/ /\ /\ \ Ant's Quality Foraged Links: http://aqfl.net
| |o o| |
\ _ / If crediting, then use Ant nickname and AQFL URL/link.
( ) If e-mailing, then axe ANT from its address if needed.
Ant is currently not listening to any songs on this computer.
Ant
2011-09-25 19:46:44 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Paul
Post by Yousuf Khan
You can now concentrate on doing a search for PFN_LIST_CORRUPT and
LOCKED_PAGES_TRACKER_CORRUPTION errors on the ntoskrnl.exe through
Google, rather than learning WinDbg and all of that other crap.
Yousuf Khan
And then deal with the disconnect, where the evidence shows it's
a memory related problem, and all the testing to date shows no memory
problems. What to do ?
Something doesn't add up.
I was reading that it could be driver related. Right now, I am focusing
on my onboard audio. I disabled it through device manager so far, so far
no crashes YET. Too early to conclude that it is the cause. We'll see...
And yes, I got the updated drivers from Dell's web site for this PC from
end of 2009. I even tried RealTek's driver.
--
"If I want to be a robber, I rob the king's treasury. If I want to be a
hunter, I hunt the rhino. What is the use of robbing beggars and hunting
ants? So if you want to love, love God." --Swami Vivekananda
/\___/\ Ant @ http://antfarm.ma.cx (Personal Web Site)
/ /\ /\ \ Ant's Quality Foraged Links: http://aqfl.net
| |o o| |
\ _ / If crediting, then use Ant nickname and AQFL URL/link.
( ) If e-mailing, then axe ANT from its address if needed.
Ant is/was listening to a song on this computer: Namice - Namice -
Memories (ID: 446931)
Ant
2011-09-25 19:44:25 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Yousuf Khan
When I had learned how to use WinDbg I compared it to the information I
was getting from Bluescreenview. I found Bluescreenview was right on the
money, showing everything in seconds that I had found out the hard way
by hand using WinDbg (probably took 15 minutes by hand). I now no longer
remember how to use WinDbg, but I don't care Bluescreenview is all I need.
Hmm, for me WinDbg's !analyze -v and BlueScreenView show different
results on what possible causes.
Post by Yousuf Khan
As for not being able to handle the full dumps, I think the reason for
that is because the full dumps and the minidumps are formatted in
different ways. Most of the major problems can be handled by the
minidumps, anyway. I think the full-dump is just a legacy feature left
over for programmers who do kernel or device driver development, and
they need the full dump feature to debug problems that they caused from
their own code.
I got a reply from Nir, the developer about the full memory dumps on
Sun, Sep 25, 2011 at 11:16:34AM -0700: "No, It doesn't support
memory.dmp files. In fact, I already tried to to support memory.dmp
files, but I found out that some information (like the drivers list)
cannot be easily extracted from the memory.dmp file like I do with the
minidump files."
Post by Yousuf Khan
You can now concentrate on doing a search for PFN_LIST_CORRUPT and
LOCKED_PAGES_TRACKER_CORRUPTION errors on the ntoskrnl.exe through
Google, rather than learning WinDbg and all of that other crap.
Yeah, I did that too. Still puzzled why. People say run memory testers
(used memtest86 and memtest86+), Prime95, etc. All passed. :(
--
"Ladies and gentlemen, hoboes and tramps...Crosseyed Mosquitoes and
bow-legged ants...I've come to tell you the story..." --Bob Holman
/\___/\ Ant @ http://antfarm.ma.cx (Personal Web Site)
/ /\ /\ \ Ant's Quality Foraged Links: http://aqfl.net
| |o o| |
\ _ / If crediting, then use Ant nickname and AQFL URL/link.
( ) If e-mailing, then axe ANT from its address if needed.
Ant is/was listening to a song on this computer: meinsla - {Meinsla}
Celestial Drift (ID: 447405)
Andre.Ziegler
2011-09-25 01:03:39 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Ant
I am trying to figure out an updated 64-bit Windows 7 HPE's random blue
screen crashes' dump files (mini, kernel, and small) with WinDbg
v6.12.0002.633 AMD64.
Share the minidumps if possible. Also post about your hardware. Do you
use a SSD?
Ant
2011-09-26 19:34:49 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Andre.Ziegler
Post by Ant
I am trying to figure out an updated 64-bit Windows 7 HPE's random blue
screen crashes' dump files (mini, kernel, and small) with WinDbg
v6.12.0002.633 AMD64.
Share the minidumps if possible. Also post about your hardware. Do you
use a SSD?
http://zimage.com/~ant/temp/DellStudioXPS8K64w7hp/ for hwinfo64's text
results and two latest minidumps (don't know what happened to the older
ones). No to SSD. Just a SATA HDD.
--
Quote of the Week: "A centipede is an ant made to Canadian/government specs." --unknown
/\___/\ Ant @ http://antfarm.home.dhs.org (Personal Web Site)
/ /\ /\ \ Ant's Quality Foraged Links: http://aqfl.net
| |o o| |
\ _ / Please nuke ANT if replying by e-mail. If crediting,
( ) then please kindly use Ant nickname and AQFL URL/link.
Ant
2011-09-27 23:15:36 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
I just got another crash (started pausing, didn't see any proceesses
hogging in task manager showing all processes), starting shutting dfown
programs, Windows froze including its mouse cursor, went behind my
computer to unplug my analog headphone connection, Windows came alive
(this trick sometimes work), disabled my onboard sound driver through
Device Manager, tried to use Windows a few minutes, blue screened with
PFN_LIST_CORRUPT with a full memory dump (8 GB!), rebooted, etc. I
checked out the 8 GB memory.dmp file out with WinDbg which didn't seem
to be different. I posted its results and from WhyCrash:
http://pastie.org/2602658 ... This is annoying. I need more clues. :(

I wonder if upgrading to SP1 would fix it. :/
--
Quote of the Week: "A centipede is an ant made to Canadian/government specs." --unknown
/\___/\ Ant @ http://antfarm.home.dhs.org (Personal Web Site)
/ /\ /\ \ Ant's Quality Foraged Links: http://aqfl.net
| |o o| |
\ _ / Please nuke ANT if replying by e-mail. If crediting,
( ) then please kindly use Ant nickname and AQFL URL/link.
Paul
2011-09-28 02:00:57 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Ant
I just got another crash (started pausing, didn't see any proceesses
hogging in task manager showing all processes), starting shutting dfown
programs, Windows froze including its mouse cursor, went behind my
computer to unplug my analog headphone connection, Windows came alive
(this trick sometimes work), disabled my onboard sound driver through
Device Manager, tried to use Windows a few minutes, blue screened with
PFN_LIST_CORRUPT with a full memory dump (8 GB!), rebooted, etc. I
checked out the 8 GB memory.dmp file out with WinDbg which didn't seem
http://pastie.org/2602658 ... This is annoying. I need more clues. :(
I wonder if upgrading to SP1 would fix it. :/
You mentioned VMWare.

One thing I've noticed, is when you install virtual machine software,
some kind of drivers or shims are installed, to give the software a way
to interact with the machine. And that would be at a fairly low level.

I really didn't think about this, until one day, I was preparing a floppy,
and it was running really really slow. On a hunch, I started VPC2007 and
even without running any virtual machines, the floppy returned to normal
operation. And so what I witnessed, is that a driver or something installed
by that package, was able to screw things up, even with the rest of their
software not running.

There is mention here of running "Driver Verifier with Special Pool enabled"
but I have no idea what that means.

http://www.osronline.com/article.cfm?article=334

*******

As an alternative approach, take a clean disk, install the same OS
you're using currently, and test with that. If the basic clean OS
falls over, without VMWare, then you've eliminated at least one
possibility.

Paul
Ant
2011-09-30 19:49:32 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Paul
Post by Ant
I just got another crash (started pausing, didn't see any proceesses
hogging in task manager showing all processes), starting shutting dfown
programs, Windows froze including its mouse cursor, went behind my
computer to unplug my analog headphone connection, Windows came alive
(this trick sometimes work), disabled my onboard sound driver through
Device Manager, tried to use Windows a few minutes, blue screened with
PFN_LIST_CORRUPT with a full memory dump (8 GB!), rebooted, etc. I
checked out the 8 GB memory.dmp file out with WinDbg which didn't seem
http://pastie.org/2602658 ... This is annoying. I need more clues. :(
You mentioned VMWare.
One thing I've noticed, is when you install virtual machine software,
some kind of drivers or shims are installed, to give the software a way
to interact with the machine. And that would be at a fairly low level.
So it can still cause problems when I am not running VMs (e.g., reboot
and idled at 64-bit W7's login screen)? I noticed I haven't had problems
in the beginning with this machine and VMware Workstation v7.x. I do
need VMs to do my work. I guess I could uninstall it during a vacation
or something to leave my computer idled for a week.
Post by Paul
I really didn't think about this, until one day, I was preparing a floppy,
and it was running really really slow. On a hunch, I started VPC2007 and
even without running any virtual machines, the floppy returned to normal
operation. And so what I witnessed, is that a driver or something installed
by that package, was able to screw things up, even with the rest of their
software not running.
There is mention here of running "Driver Verifier with Special Pool enabled"
but I have no idea what that means.
http://www.osronline.com/article.cfm?article=334
Yeah, it is a bit technical. Now which drivers should I aim for? Hmm!
Post by Paul
As an alternative approach, take a clean disk, install the same OS
you're using currently, and test with that. If the basic clean OS
falls over, without VMWare, then you've eliminated at least one
possibility.
Yeah, maybe a clean install. Or maybe I should upgrade to SP1. Hmm!

Currently, I uninstalled RealTek driver and using MS' default driver. I
don't need the fancy stuff from RealTek. I know this W7 came with it so
I doubt this would make a difference. It has been over two days so far.
We'll see...
--
Quote of the Week: "A centipede is an ant made to Canadian/government specs." --unknown
/\___/\ Ant @ http://antfarm.home.dhs.org (Personal Web Site)
/ /\ /\ \ Ant's Quality Foraged Links: http://aqfl.net
| |o o| |
\ _ / Please nuke ANT if replying by e-mail. If crediting,
( ) then please kindly use Ant nickname and AQFL URL/link.
Char Jackson
2011-10-01 01:54:05 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Ant
Yeah, maybe a clean install. Or maybe I should upgrade to SP1. Hmm!
IMHO, you should have upgraded to SP1 months ago.
--
Char Jackson
Ant
2011-10-02 12:29:59 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Char Jackson
Post by Ant
Yeah, maybe a clean install. Or maybe I should upgrade to SP1. Hmm!
IMHO, you should have upgraded to SP1 months ago.
Why? MS still support it. What does SP1 have? Will it fix my hard
crashes? I noticed Windows Update (can get other updates just fine)
doesn't offer me SP1 so I'd have to download the full upgrader manually. :(
--
"We have to break with what must be broken with once and for all... and
we have to take the suffering upon ourselves... Freedom and power--power
above all. Power over all the tumbling vermin and over all the
ant-hill!" --Fedor Dostoevsky
/\___/\ Ant @ http://antfarm.ma.cx (Personal Web Site)
/ /\ /\ \ Ant's Quality Foraged Links: http://aqfl.net
| |o o| |
\ _ / If crediting, then use Ant nickname and AQFL URL/link.
( ) If e-mailing, then axe ANT from its address if needed.
Ant is currently not listening to any songs on this computer.
Char Jackson
2011-10-02 18:04:18 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Ant
Post by Char Jackson
Post by Ant
Yeah, maybe a clean install. Or maybe I should upgrade to SP1. Hmm!
IMHO, you should have upgraded to SP1 months ago.
Why? MS still support it. What does SP1 have? Will it fix my hard
crashes? I noticed Windows Update (can get other updates just fine)
doesn't offer me SP1 so I'd have to download the full upgrader manually. :(
As a general rule, I don't like to see people resist keeping their OS
current. I don't understand the mindset. I think it's dangerous for
that individual and dangerous for the Internet community as a whole.
--
Char Jackson
Ant
2011-10-02 19:41:34 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Char Jackson
Post by Ant
Post by Char Jackson
Post by Ant
Yeah, maybe a clean install. Or maybe I should upgrade to SP1. Hmm!
IMHO, you should have upgraded to SP1 months ago.
Why? MS still support it. What does SP1 have? Will it fix my hard
crashes? I noticed Windows Update (can get other updates just fine)
doesn't offer me SP1 so I'd have to download the full upgrader manually. :(
As a general rule, I don't like to see people resist keeping their OS
current. I don't understand the mindset. I think it's dangerous for
that individual and dangerous for the Internet community as a whole.
SP0 is still current and supported. I will upgrade when MS drops its
support. Now, if SP1 will fix my problems then I will try it. But then
it might make it worse. :( I didn't see any SP1 release notes that would
fix my problem.
--
"Cheerios: Hula-hoops for ants." --unknown
/\___/\ Ant @ http://antfarm.ma.cx (Personal Web Site)
/ /\ /\ \ Ant's Quality Foraged Links: http://aqfl.net
| |o o| |
\ _ / If crediting, then use Ant nickname and AQFL URL/link.
( ) If e-mailing, then axe ANT from its address if needed.
Ant is currently not listening to any songs on this computer.
Geoff
2011-10-02 20:09:40 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Ant
Post by Char Jackson
Post by Ant
Post by Char Jackson
Post by Ant
Yeah, maybe a clean install. Or maybe I should upgrade to SP1. Hmm!
IMHO, you should have upgraded to SP1 months ago.
Why? MS still support it. What does SP1 have? Will it fix my hard
crashes? I noticed Windows Update (can get other updates just fine)
doesn't offer me SP1 so I'd have to download the full upgrader manually. :(
As a general rule, I don't like to see people resist keeping their OS
current. I don't understand the mindset. I think it's dangerous for
that individual and dangerous for the Internet community as a whole.
SP0 is still current and supported. I will upgrade when MS drops its
support. Now, if SP1 will fix my problems then I will try it. But then
it might make it worse. :( I didn't see any SP1 release notes that would
fix my problem.
So let me get this straight... you won't upgrade to SP1, supported and
recommended by Microsoft, but you stay on SP0 because it's supported
by Microsoft? Then in the same breath you come to Usenet for support
about blue screens in a Microsoft supported product? Interesting.

I recommend a complete reinstall of the operating system, followed by
a complete upgrade of the system to include all Microsoft service
packs and hot fixes.

If the system still bluescreens after that, you have a hardware
problem. Throw out the system and buy a new one.
Ant
2011-10-02 23:15:57 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Geoff
If the system still bluescreens after that, you have a hardware
problem. Throw out the system and buy a new one.
Already? It is not even two years old!
--
"God is a mean kid sitting on an ant-hill with a magnifying glass, and
I'm the ant." --Bruce Nolan (Bruce Almighty movie)
/\___/\ Ant @ http://antfarm.ma.cx (Personal Web Site)
/ /\ /\ \ Ant's Quality Foraged Links: http://aqfl.net
| |o o| |
\ _ / If crediting, then use Ant nickname and AQFL URL/link.
( ) If e-mailing, then axe ANT from its address if needed.
Ant is currently not listening to any songs on this computer.
Geoff
2011-10-02 23:39:37 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Ant
Post by Geoff
If the system still bluescreens after that, you have a hardware
problem. Throw out the system and buy a new one.
Already? It is not even two years old!
Free advice is worth what you pay for it. :)
Roy Smith
2011-10-03 01:07:24 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Ant
Post by Geoff
If the system still bluescreens after that, you have a hardware
problem. Throw out the system and buy a new one.
Already? It is not even two years old!
The age of any piece of hardware has no bearing on when it will fail.
It's possible that you could have had a voltage spike which could have
fried something in your PC, and it would have happened regardless of
the age of the system. There are a number of other things that could
have happened as well... so just because something is only x number of
days/months/years old has no relevance except for warranty coverage.
Char Jackson
2011-10-03 01:32:29 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Ant
Post by Char Jackson
Post by Ant
Post by Char Jackson
Post by Ant
Yeah, maybe a clean install. Or maybe I should upgrade to SP1. Hmm!
IMHO, you should have upgraded to SP1 months ago.
Why? MS still support it. What does SP1 have? Will it fix my hard
crashes? I noticed Windows Update (can get other updates just fine)
doesn't offer me SP1 so I'd have to download the full upgrader manually. :(
As a general rule, I don't like to see people resist keeping their OS
current. I don't understand the mindset. I think it's dangerous for
that individual and dangerous for the Internet community as a whole.
SP0 is still current and supported. I will upgrade when MS drops its
support. Now, if SP1 will fix my problems then I will try it. But then
it might make it worse. :( I didn't see any SP1 release notes that would
fix my problem.
For the record, I think that holding off on SP1 until you're forced to
upgrade is a ridiculous position to take. I don't see any sense or
logic in that, at all.

Will bringing your OS up to date fix your problems? I don't know, but
I can't see wasting time trying to troubleshoot issues when you're not
otherwise up to date. Just my opinion, FWIW.
--
Char Jackson
Loading...